Quickly becoming an anchor in the development and evolution of NuLu, the Rabbit Hole Distillery shines in its celebration of long-time distilling conventions and modern creative design. But before the distillery’s multi-award winning releases became a reality, it all started with a spark of inspiration and a dramatic shift in vision. We sat down with Rabbit Hole Founder, Kaveh Zamanian to explore how he leverages his passion for the industry and experience as a Clinical Psychologist to create a brand that celebrates community, creativity, and history.
What was that initial inspiration that started you into this journey in spirits?
The original inspiration was from my days in the hospitality business – I cut my teeth in the bar and restaurant business ever since I was a kid, really late adolescent, and then all the way through college and graduate school. Through all of this I really just developed a soft spot for fine wine and spirits. That's the root of my early experience with it, really understanding and learning not only about how special wine and spirits are, but also what they do from a standpoint of being able to bring people together. That became the origin story of my passion point with fine spirits.
Then as we move forward to Rabbit Hole, and Mary Dowling and other things that I've done, these ventures are tied to when I started coming down to Kentucky in about 2003. My wife is from Louisville, and I really fell in love with bourbon in a way where it became obsessional, quite frankly. I realized at that time, looking back about 20 years ago, that bourbon was not what it is today, and it felt like there was an opportunity to add to the chorus of great craft distillers that are out there. I was at the beginning of thinking about how I could join the field and contribute.
What did those early days look like, leading to starting a brand? How did inspiration lead to action?
You know, it was a process. It started by essentially, like most people that are fans of something, really kind of geeking out over the mechanics of it, tasting a lot of products, talking to a lot of different folks. In my case here in Kentucky, I was fortunate enough, particularly back then, to be able to see and work with some of the old Master Distillers that were kind enough to share their knowledge with me. There were a lot of great dusties that I was able to taste that really took me to another level, from a standpoint of inspiration and thinking about what happened then and what we could do to kind of bring the glory days of bourbon back.
Then there was a point in time where I decided that if I am serious about this, I have to take some concrete steps. And that, in my case, was conversation with my wife first and foremost, because at the time we had three little kids, so we had to decide, “what does it mean to close my practice and start a bourbon brand and distillery?”. With very little experience and very little support at the time, this meant shoring up the family support first, and then from there, all of the mechanical things in terms of raising money, the fundamentals of producing the liquid, starting the brand itself, and finally, building the distillery.
What elements of your psychology background were prominent in this growth work?
Psychology, for me, is really kind of the precondition that allowed me to be here and do what I've done. Because in a lot of ways, for me, part of what was instrumental in those years as a psychologist was appreciation for how concepts of “play” and “creativity” play a role in being able to have a more fulfilling life. For me, Bourbon in some ways, aside from liking fine spirits, became an opportunity to engage and play creatively, which started with the liquid to the packaging and the distillery. Probably most importantly, psychology has been influential in the development of a team and culture, because I think any successful brand or business really requires a team of capable people. You're only as good as your team. I think, ultimately, psychology is about understanding people and relationships, and that was fundamental to being able to do what I've done.
What led you to celebrate the spirit of Kentucky with each core release both in mashbill and name?
I think a couple of things. First is the fact that I'm an immigrant, and as an immigrant, I think there was really an interest in being able to join the community, and really be part of the community. And with that, thinking about how the history of the Commonwealth and the bourbon industry in particular have shaped the community that I'm a part of now. So, how do I build on that and bring a spotlight on Bourbon the way it hasn't been or wasn't before? Part of it was understanding that history and culture, and beginning there. I think the other piece of it was the craft movement, and what is magical about bourbon?
To me, Bourbon is 51% corn, and 49% possibility, which really heralds this idea that, from a whiskey making standpoint, it's really a creative playground where you can play around with different recipes and organically create pretty special expressions. I think the last piece of it is that once you have those elements in place and you’ve got the whiskey going, how do we bring the story of our community to light? This is where the names come in, with Cavehill and Heigold and so on and so forth, as a way of being able to tell the story of the community. I'm very proud of being part of Louisville and the Commonwealth, but Louisville in particular, because this was the place where at one point we had about 250 businesses up and down Main Street. The Commonwealth, going back to the 19th century post Civil War at one point had over 2,000 distilleries – most of them went away. My thinking was around how do we actually use our products and our space as a way of rekindling and telling that story again?
Can you tell us just a little bit about each of the four core releases?
The first expression is Cavehill – that's the first one that I came up with, and truly was the first expression that we released. It's a four grain, triple malt Bourbon. I started as a Scotch guy, so I was really curious about the impact of barley as a flavoring grain, as opposed to wheat or rye. So that was really the first expression where in some ways I wanted to see if I could bring a little bit that earthiness and the peatiness that you sometimes get in a scotch. I also really wanted to stretch my wings a little bit from the standpoint of doing something that's a little bit different, but compliments the traditional Kentucky Straight Bourbon. Cavehill, you might know, is a cemetery not too far from our distillery. It's where you can find some of the most notable Kentucky dignitaries, from Muhammad Ali, Colonel Sanders, and lots of other folks there. For me, it’s also notable because we have the most past distillers resting there. As my first expression, it became a way of signaling that we're standing on the shoulders of giants, and we need to remember those folks and tell their stories. So that was the first out of, if you would, expression within the lineup.
Now the second expression, which I think of a nice counterpart to Cavehill, because it's another Kentucky Straight Bourbon is Heigold. That's our high rye expression; it's a high rye double malt, and it's named after Christian Heigold, who was a German immigrant here right after the Civil War: Loved America, Stone Cutter, and lots of his great work is around the city, but not a whole lot of people knew his story. The product itself is basically corn, malted rye and malted barley. It features a German-based malted rye, so it's a little bit of a nod to that German heritage of Heigold with this malted rye from one of the oldest malting houses in Germany. Heigold is a really interesting, elevated take on the traditional Kentucky Straight High Rye Whiskey. That malted rye brings in some wonderful accentuated flavors and takes, I would say, the standard of high rye to another level.
Then I would go to Boxergrail, which is our Kentucky Straight Rye. In those early days I was trained by and worked with Larry Ebersold who was one of my mentors. Larry is the godfather of rye whiskey; used to be the Master Distiller for Pernod at one point, then he was at MGP, which was previously Seagrams, and 95/5 Rye is his signature. For Rabbit Hole, I wanted to create another 95/5 in his honor with the twist that we played around with the barrels. All the barrels that we have come from Kelvin Cooperage, which are not only handmade wood fired, but they are toasted and charred. It really brings a certain degree of accentuation and flavor that is really unique. Taste Boxergrail alongside any other 95/5 rye out there, and you will see the impact of the wood coming through; you get a lot more flavor, florals and citrus in ways that are signature to it. Of course, the name Boxergrail is a little bit of a nod to our boxing heritage here in Louisville. It's a little play on Lewis Carroll's “Jabberwocky” Boxegrail; you’ve got Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Ellis, and a lot of amazing boxing champions from Louisville. In fact, this distillery is right down from a building where Muhammad Ali used to train. It's just again, telling the story of the community and that part of the heritage of the city.
Last but not least is Dareringer, which is our Wheated Bourbon that is finished in PX Sherry casks. And it's named Dareringer as another Jabberwocky play – my wife Heather was the person that, in a lot of ways, was the inspiration and the support behind jumping down the rabbit hole. So, the name is really a combination of a daring wringer who got me to go down that rabbit hole, if you would. The wheated bourbon is a relatively sweeter based bourbon, and then px takes it to a whole nother level. Dareringer is a fan favorite here at the distillery, and what's fascinating to see is that with a little bit of a sweeter base to it, it's drawing in a lot of newer, more emerging consumers to the whiskey and bourbon category.
How did you focus in on a distillery design that celebrates old world sentiment with modern convention?
When I started thinking about the design of this place, there were a couple of things that I kept in mind. One was that I wanted a distillery that really, truly was able to serve as a craft distillery that's designed to scale. It gives us the flexibility to be able to genuinely produce small batch expressions. Every fermentation tank only yields about 20 to 23 barrels at a time, but collectively, we're able to produce 26,000 plus. This means that, in some ways, we’re very much like a culinary kitchen; we can do small batch stuff, and we can do a lot of experimentation and innovation, but if we like a recipe, we can scale it in a way that's meaningful.
The second piece of it is this idea of form follows function. Having lived in Chicago for about 20 years, I was very much influenced by folks like Louis Sullivan Mies van der Rohe, And when I worked with our design team, which was essentially Doug Pierson as chief architect with his wife, Youn Choi, we talked about this idea of form follows process, as opposed to form follows function. How do we design a place that is not only able to do this kind of craft culinary approach, but is able to really showcase every step of the process? So we can essentially invite all our guests and visitors to not only get educated on the process of making bourbon, but in the process, be able to actually gain an appreciation for what manufacturing of whiskey is all about. I literally told Youn and Doug that I wanted to make whiskey-making look sexy. To design with transparency, which is a part of our ethos, and in the process, they're able to see everything, and have all the senses heightened – from a standpoint of visually, tactile, auditory, obviously sensory – all these experiences are front and center.
Was that beautiful rooftop bar a part of the original design?
It was. We spent about two years on the design of this property, so it took a lot of thinking. There was a combination of the design piece of it, and then there was the engineering piece of it. And we had a number of very capable teams coming together that I'm essentially trying to quarterback to work together. Because it's one thing to make a beautiful building; it's another thing to make it a functional building, where you essentially have a manufacturing plant within a hospitality space. It's kind of unique to distillery experiences in the US, where you have manufacturing and hospitality in one space – I was very intentional about that. I wanted guests to be able to be in the soup, if you would, and then when they're finished with the tour and they're up top, stepping away into a visual, aesthetic and sensory experience. Because ultimately, that's what I think really moves the needle, from an emotional standpoint, to gain appreciation in terms of what we're doing and what bourbon is about.
What inspired the work with artists to develop designs for single barrels and releases?
That goes back to the psychology question earlier. When I worked as a clinical psychologist, one of the things that was pretty consistent is this idea that a lot of folks struggled because they either couldn't find what they loved and what they're passionate about, or if they did, they didn't really have the wherewithal to be able to pursue it. What that fundamentally comes back to is the ability to play. To me, that's one of the most important lessons that I learned as a psychologist, where, if we are not able to create in whatever shape or form, we're much more prone to fall ill, basically. As a result, we created a culture here where everybody on the team is part of that creative process in one form or another. As an extension of that, single barrel and even the bottle was very intentional – we wanted to create a bottle where it gives maximum coverage or template to the artist, whoever it might be, to be able to showcase their work. For me, that was kind of the backdrop of it.
The second piece of it was to really support emerging artists; we didn't go out there looking for established artists. I wanted Rabbit Hole to become a space where we tell an artist's story and be able to give an emerging artist this kind of platform to showcase their work. Kasiq, for example, was the artist who worked on our initial release and the ones that we've resurrected. He's a South Korean fashion illustrator, he had never done anything like this before, and he was able to get a certain exposure within a category that he's not ordinarily involved with. It was a win for him, it's a win for us, and it allows us to tell this story. We've been building on that over the years.
How do you approach your work and any routines to support your efforts?
For me, the creative side of it requires just being out in the world and interacting with the world. I really genuinely believe that I don't think I'm necessarily creating anything super original – that this is all really reactions and derivative responses to what's going on in my experiences. So being out and about and interacting, be it in museums, galleries, with music, or any type of a cultural experience, those are the bread and butter of what gives me inspiration. This is the same principle that I actually advocate to my team as well; to go out there and bring those experiences back to the table so we can just throw stuff at the wall, work together and iterate with it. It's all about a process of iteration to be able to come up with something that makes sense to us and we decide to proceed from a standpoint of actually making it a reality. Being in the world is probably the most important source of inspiration for me. And it really is about the intersection of food, other spirits, a lot of art and music that just feeds my soul creatively.
I think the other piece of it is about culture. The basic principle that I think I'm mindful of is how do I make sure that I'm exercising empathy and mindfulness every day? Because it's really about appreciating, not just what I love, but what resonates with my team and the rest of the world to work within that kind of a communal, collective effort. That's why we don't have a designated Master Distiller, and we work together collectively. That's really the mindset that I try to keep exercising.
What is your approach to Single Barrels to create distinctive releases?
For us, it starts with a lot of planning, basically. And what I mean by that is that once we lay down the barrels, we essentially have an evolving inventory. We actually started working on this several years ago, where what I wanted to get a sense of was the anatomy of each warehouse, because each warehouse has its own kind of ecosystem – its own experience, particularly where we house these barrels, which is in Campbellsburg, Kentucky. You have ones that are sitting on top of the hill, and one that is on the bottom of the hill with very different climates and very different characters. So understanding the personality of each warehouse, to me, is the key step number one. Then you get into it on a more granular level – initially you're looking at all your warehouses like all your kids, but then you want to really get to know the personality of each one of your kids. So what does that mean?
When we look at seasonality, temperature fluctuation, humidity, what kind of whiskey are we getting at different parts of that warehouse? What we've done in the last several years is to understand each warehouse and be able to map out where we want to put certain barrels that are either for higher aged products or the single barrels. This equips us with that anatomy and mapping of the warehouse guides to inform where our sensory team goes. So once we have that, the third piece is that we have a dedicated sensory team for our single barrel program. All they do every day is to look at these barrels and pull samples. And before we even offer anything to essentially any customer or any visitor, we've curated a selection which is already vetted.
With regards to Heigold, or any kind of a single barrel pick, our single barrels are always cask strength. For me, and part of what we talk about in that sensory team is that the whiskey has to be an elevated experience. Single barrel has to be at least two, three levels higher, because it gives you a more full bodied experience of whatever the notes are in heigold, it's got to be accentuated. So if you like that subtle spiciness, if you like that little citrus, I want those notes in a much more profound way. In this most recent ReserveBar selection for instance, I immediately got a little tobacco with the spice in contrast to the standard Heigold where you don't necessarily get that as profoundly, which is really lovely. I don't like a whiskey that punches me in the face, so every note has to be balanced and not overpowering. Then, especially with single barrels, I want that long lingering finish so it allows you to really sip, savor and enjoy it, which I think this has.
How do you like to enjoy Rabbit Hole?
When I'm just drinking for pleasure, depending on my mood and the occasion, I love Heigold or Boxergrail in a cocktail, be it a Manhattan, an Old Fashioned, or in a Paper Plane. When I'm sitting with some friends, either smoking a cigar or having an after-dinner drink, all I need is a nice, large ice cube – I like to let it just open up and melt with a single barrel or a Founder’s Collection release. Take your time, sip and savor again. We started Mary Dowling, and these are also expressions that I have really enjoyed imbibing in as well on a cube. To go one step beyond bourbon, right now I’m really excited about Italian aperitifs and amaros.
My wife and I actually purchased an Italian amaro, an Italian vermouth and aperitif brand last year. She's the one who's actually now running it, so I'm here playing the supporting cast. There's Starlino, which is a vermouth, and aperitifs, and then Stambecco, which is an amaro brand that is going to be coming out this year. I've been really passionate about the vermouth, because it's finished in bourbon barrels; the aperitifs are just lovely, especially if you're looking for a nice light summer drink, and amaros are the my new love, and so that's been kind of the area that we've been playing around and tasting a lot.
How has Founder’s and now Mary Dowling given you space to play a little bit more?
I can't talk about that without giving a nod of appreciation to Pernod Ricard and Alex Ricard. Alex saw the vision of Rabbit Hole, understood it and supported it. And I think it's that quality of partnership that's allowed me to be able to keep playing around creatively speaking. Be it Mary Dowling, Mash & Mallow and what we're doing with Founder’s, these are all essentially within this kind of idea of a play space that gives me and my team an opportunity to go beyond what we did with Rabbit Hole, to innovate within Rabbit Hole, but also keep doing other things. Each creation really informs the other, and it goes back and forth and ultimately helps elevate all the brands.
In Closing
Inspired by this notion to play within his work, it is clear that Kaveh and his team have their eyes constantly focused forward as the work towards what is to come. Be sure to follow the latest from Rabbit Hole on their site, with a visit to the distillery anytime you’re in Louisville, and their newest releases right here on ReserveBar.
